Suggestions/complaints/questions regarding moderating of the forum

[Arbiter Elegantiarum]

Here is the topic where you can put any suggestions, complaints or questions regarding moderating of the forum and we, moderating stuff, we'll try to answer you.

Please only ask serious and well argumented questions/complaints etc. This is not a place to write posts with one line like "mods suck" or "rules of the forum are nazi", those will be deleted.

This is also not a place for currently banned users to come with duplicate account and argue with us about lifting their ban, if we find out you have created duplicate account, we'll delete it and prolong your ban so please do not try it.

[Arbiter Elegantiarum]

Moved post:

I still can't believe Achilles is gone I wanted to follow his pick for Milan game today

These new rules are too harsh in my opinion, if you will enforce them to full extent a lot of livescore posts can be deleted. Are the new rules the reason that yesterdays livescore thread was so empty?

And is there really a new forum for livescore, can someone send me a link to PM, thanks.

[Arbiter Elegantiarum]

And to answer VicVance, yes probably more posts will be deleted in livescore but that's up to users really, hopefully there will be not much rule breaking. Rules are tweaked in more strict way and will be enforced more strictly from now on since previous lenient approach(yes, it was lenient, contrary to many opinions) resulted in too many complaints about behavior in there/problems for us. Problems with livescore date back to it's creation, check out this thread from 2005: http://forum.bettingadvice.com/showthread.php?t=5147

We obviously do not want to ban everyone and will respectfully warn users who break the rules so that hopefully they can stop doing that.

[Morbius]

On the contrary, this new rules are excellent and more detailed than previous but why now? You could've established them years ago.

It's a mess now and lots of member's feelings are hurt hence the result.

It seems to me that someone was sleeping on the job and wanted to make some radical changes over night. It doesn't go that way.

Whether you like it or not Achilles was one of the pillars of Livescore thread and while it's no point of arguing anymore you should at least set everything to 0, unban certain members and execute new rules from that point on.

Livescore thread is a vital part of BA since it combines many things and serves also as a guide to other parts of the forum, it's where other online communities fail. If broken then this place is nothing more than an average forum.

At least I see it and felt it that way in the recent years.

Cheers

[crishna]

Sincerely, I don't think BA management deserve my attention due to "communists approach", "dictatorial approach", but anyway...

Do you really think we are in 48-es, Stalin's "inform-biro" to shut up all free-minded people!

Terribly wrong!!! This is 21-st century where human rights are on the top, above all...
And you are breaking them big time...

You couldn't stop people asking why Achi was banned permanently bcs that is connected with betting- dislike many of members and many of mods and admins Achi was big contributor and lot of people here made good money following his picks.

This place is not kinder-garden for people like rege, moloz and blutman to come, waste time, bash and provoke some members- here great part of the members come to pick up some good picks, some newest info's, to make some money- there are people here who are betting big, with thousands of euros.. they need members like achi, like rado, like goxy who could help them survive, pay the bills, buy food for family... you could say people should not be that addicted from betting and you don't care about that, but they are and all we could do is to help them not to waste money through the wind, but to earn something from betting...

Members here do not care whether Achi have anger-problems(he has and we could only try to help him- not to ruin him with banning, not to ruin his whole life, life desperately connected with betting...)... they care when he, after hours and hours digging for Italian's info, will enter the live score and recommend, play this and this, don't play that and that...

And tell me what is more important, achi's dedication to contribution whole 7 years or Achi's anger problem(I don't want even to mention his last post- it was out-of-mind post, but that's not real achi and I'm sure he would like to apologize to arsenal and others for that post)...

Tell me how the hell you expect Loko not to curse- that's Loko, Loko is BA legend and no-one here feel offended with his cursing. On the contrary, Loko is BA trade-mark... but if you confront his cursing, and his contribution and knowledge about Belgian footy, what is more important...

I think(maybe is not that modestly said) I moved the things in live-score section(few months ago) asking from administration and from Terje, mods and admins to be more harsh, even cruel with some members bcs live score became worst then chit-chat section...

But I have asked mods to ban members who provoke, members who bash other members, members who are not polite with other members---> that members deserve instant-ban even without warning!!!

But you permitted here members like Blutman, Rege to ruin everything( I have warned you hundreds times, reported ten's times, start react, ban people like blutman and rege permanent, but you don't gave a sh**t to that warnings). And now you decided to show your "muscles" with banning Achiles permanently. Jesus Christ, it was so wrong move.

Members, not you have lost achiles and his contribution, members not you have lost my contribution and probably few others bcs we don't tolerate dictatorial behavior.

[Arbiter Elegantiarum]

On the contrary, this new rules are excellent and more detailed than previous but why now? You could've established them years ago.

It's a mess now and lots of member's feelings are hurt hence the result.

It seems to me that someone was sleeping on the job and wanted to make some radical changes over night. It doesn't go that way.

We tried to be more lenient with livescore and allow members for more freedom(it doesn't mean everything was allowed there, we were still warning and banning people for racism and other stuff) but what we've got was heavy cursing, strong insults, fights were increasing in number and we have to finally stop this.

Whether you like it or not Achilles was one of the pillars of Livescore thread and while it's no point of arguing anymore you should at least set everything to 0, unban certain members and execute new rules from that point on.

Believe me that, contrary to many of livescore users think, we really didn't want to ban Achilles. He's an excellent tipster, no doubt about it. That's why we've made numerous attempts to convince him to stop pushing the limits in livescore with heavy cursing and strong insults(even though we were lenient previously we still warned/banned many members who were doing this). Terje talked to him, CG did, DJ did, I did, many mods did. He was talked to more then anyone because we didn't want to ban him for good. He was also banned several times for few days/weeks and also for longer time but allowed to return with hope he'd change and it all failed to convince him to stop. It's not much more we can do really. Short 3 days ban(not and end of the world, is it?) for him for a racist post(calling black player monkey) was met with creating new account and this horrible post in which he himself essentially is asking for pernament ban:

I got banned just because I said ''Burn in hell Alex and Fenerbahce''?

Are you kidding me you mother******* ArsenalHomo69!? Go move your f*cking lazy ass and write some new rules for BA Livescore thread , you didn't even bring proper rules c0cksucker! rules from 6 years ago , lol are you seriously kiddin me? YOU WERE NOT EVEN ACTIVE ABOUT THE AGES ON BA! Do you want a real reason to ban me? I HOPE YOU GET ANUS CANCER AND DIE IN THE PAIN!

Ah and Reggaeton and infamousmoloz ******* , I hope your mams gets raped by the horses since they are living with ******* on a moor you ugly low life bastards.

Now you have reason to ban me , F(U)CK YOU BA!

So what can we do more?

Livescore thread is a vital part of BA since it combines many things and serves also as a guide to other parts of the forum, it's where other online communities fail. If broken then this place is nothing more than an average forum.

At least I see it and felt it that way in the recent years.

Cheers

I respect your opinion altough I disagree with it. I'm sure I could find you very positive opinions of many members back from times when there was no livescore and forum was growing very well without it. On the other hand there is lot of members who were active in the past but refuse to participate in livescore in the state that it was in recent years.

[Arbiter Elegantiarum]

Sincerely, I don't think BA management deserve my attention due to "communists approach", "dictatorial approach", but anyway...

Do you really think we are in 48-es, Stalin's "inform-biro" to shut up all free-minded people!

Terribly wrong!!! This is 21-st century where human rights are on the top, above all...
And you are breaking them big time...

Breaking human rights?

You are confusing something here if you call us communists. On the contrary this is privately owned forum(by Terje Grefstad), direct opposite of communism, and not a hyde park where you can say anything you want. Try to go into a privately owned night club and start making trouble, bouncer will kick you out etc. What's more some clubs won't even let you in if you are for example not dressed properly - and, paradoxically, THAT IS FREEDOM, that such places can exist. No one is somehow entitled to be a member of this forum regardless of how he behaves(that would be more communist) but also everyone is free to choose not to be a member of this forum or say that this forum sucks. That's not communism. But on the contrary of what you say, most of forum members have no problem with that.

Members here do not care whether Achi have anger-problems(he has and we could only try to help him- not to ruin him with banning, not to ruin his whole life, life desperately connected with betting...)...

And tell me what is more important, achi's dedication to contribution whole 7 years or Achi's anger problem(I don't want even to mention his last post- it was out-of-mind post, but that's not real achi and I'm sure he would like to apologize to arsenal and others for that post)...

As I said previously, he's very good tipster indeed and we tried to help him, all admins, many mods exhchanged PM's with him, asking him to stop certain behavior, he was several times banned for short time and allowed to return in hope he'd change his ways. It all failed and became even worse with that last post.

[Morbius]

I respect your opinion altough I disagree with it. I'm sure I could find you very positive opinions of many members back from times when there was no livescore and forum was growing very well without it. On the other hand there is lot of members who were active in the past but refuse to participate in livescore in the state that it was in recent years.

I understand but I've been on and off so I only remember last two years.

Regarding Achilles, I haven't seen that post before and I must say that it is indeed brutal but to me it doesn't seem as something that a person under normal circumstances would produce. I know him as an entirely different person. Surely it was more of an uncontrolled outburst of emotions expressed with use of the strongest insulting language possible. A dark moment when you can't hold yourself back.

I'm sure and have heard that he is very very sorry but I guess there is no last "second" chance?

[crishna]

... he was also banned several times for few days/weeks and also for longer time but allowed to return with hope he'd change and it all failed to convince him to stop. It's not much more we can do really. Short 3 days ban(not and end of the world, is it?) for him for a racist post(calling black player monkey) was met with creating new account and this horrible post in which he himself essentially is asking for pernament ban:
So what can we do more?

I couldn't talk about previous ban's since I'm active in live score some 3-4 months ago. But I can talk for recent ban's- try to analyze them and you will see that he was provoked big time by Rege and Moloz and you didn't protect him- this is essential question and I asked from you answer: "Why didn't you protect Achi from Rege and Moloz hundred times"
Why when you know that we are all different when opposing bashing and provocation- someone can stay calm someone get mad... and don't tell me he just had to put Rege on ignore list bcs he did it and after that all of the time Moloz have quoted Rege just Achi to be provoked again...

If you mention in rules that you can ban someone post-festum why don't you analyze once again all posts by Rege and Moloz and ban them permanent!!!

If you don't want to give a hand to achi and limited the ban to one month and ask apologize,for the god's sake you have to ban members who settled up Achi to be banned!

[crishna]

And mister Arbiter, you didn't answer to two crucial questions:

...This place is not kinder-garden for people like rege, moloz and blutman to come, waste time, bash and provoke some members- here great part of the members come to pick up some good picks, some newest info's, to make some money- there are people here who are betting big, with thousands of euros.. they need members like achi, like rado, like goxy who could help them survive, pay the bills, buy food for family... you could say people should not be that addicted from betting and you don't care about that, but they are and all we could do is to help them not to waste money through the wind, but to earn something from betting...

Members here do not care whether Achi have anger-problems(he has and we could only try to help him- not to ruin him with banning, not to ruin his whole life, life desperately connected with betting...)... they care when he, after hours and hours digging for Italian's info, will enter the live score and recommend, play this and this, don't play that and that...

And tell me what is more important, achi's dedication to contribution whole 7 years or Achi's anger problem(I don't want even to mention his last post- it was out-of-mind post, but that's not real achi and I'm sure he would like to apologize to arsenal and others for that post)...

Tell me how the hell you expect Loko not to curse- that's Loko, Loko is BA legend and no-one here feel offended with his cursing. On the contrary, Loko is BA trade-mark... but if you confront his cursing, and his contribution and knowledge about Belgian footy, what is more important...

I ask answer on this part...

... but you permitted here members like Blutman, Rege to ruin everything( I have warned you hundreds times, reported ten's times, start react, ban people like blutman and rege permanent, but you don't gave a sh**t to that warnings). And now you decided to show your "muscles" with banning Achiles permanently. Jesus Christ, it was so wrong move...

I ask answer on this part...

[Arbiter Elegantiarum]

Being provoked is oldest excuse in the book really, we(admins, mods) many times kindly asked Achilles to not respond to anything he sees as provocations, to add users to ignore lists etc. Besides, anyone has to control himself, as what one sees as provocation, others can interpret in different way. And above all, we HAVE to control ourselves or else this place would become really horrible.

See you call me a communist, while in real life communists did a lot of evil to people I know so it's not a pleasant thing for me to read. Do you see me going on a big outburst, wishing you to die and calling you whatever insults I dream up?

... but you permitted here members like Blutman, Rege to ruin everything( I have warned you hundreds times, reported ten's times, start react, ban people like blutman and rege permanent, but you don't gave a sh**t to that warnings). And now you decided to show your "muscles" with banning Achiles permanently. Jesus Christ, it was so wrong move...

That is your opinion so not much I can answer here. Those members WERE warned as well when necessary.

[IGUANA]

And he was asked to report the provocative posts, but all I ever saw in my mail were useless posts about Juve, Milan, etc

[Marco Van-Basten]

can i ask here q's about achi's ban?

[shicne]

I think this sudden persecution is excessive. I really don't know who complained so much about livescore thread that drew such drastic measures. Now people do not feel comfortable, and in a way you took the soul of this place. We're all different characters and that is the beauty of this place. If you want this to be a joyless impersonal place than you are on the right track. Of course I don't think we should be ruled by anarchy, but if the rules are implemented properly then there is no need for repression. Maybe we should look for reasons on both sides. We have so many moderators who are not able to protect members in the same way. Of course they are humans too , and occasionally they tend to take sides. All in all I think this is the wrong way to solve things..but hey, this is privately owned forum..

[Arbiter Elegantiarum]

Now people do not feel comfortable, and in a way you took the soul of this place. We're all different characters and that is the beauty of this place. If you want this to be a joyless impersonal place than you are on the right track.

No, as it's said in the rules, we just want it to be a place without racism, heavy insults, death wishes, fighting between members etc. If that's anyones idea of fun he should probably find another forum or chat. Others are welcomed to post, no one will delete or ban anyone for some lighthearted, friendly banter.

Of course I don't think we should be ruled by anarchy, but if the rules are implemented properly then there is no need for repression.

No one says there will be repression. There might be if someone behaves very bad and doesn't stop when asked. So it's up to all of us really.