Volleyball Champions League (men) 23-25.01.

[brasil]

From sts.pl

23.01.2007

17:00 Lokomotiv Bielgorod (RUS) 1,15 Tours VB (FRA) 4,00
20:30 Paris Volley (FRA) 1,70 Iraklis Saloniki (GRE) 1,90
20:30 Sisley Treviso (ITA) 1,05 Ortec Rotterdam (NED) 6,00

24.01.2007

18:00 Skra Belchatow (POL) 1,40 Knack Roeselare (BEL) 2,40
19:00 Buducnost Podgoricka (MNE) 1,25 evivo Düren (GER) 3,00
20:00 VfB Friedrichshafen (GER) 1,15 DHL Ostrava (CZE) 4,00
20:15 Hypo Tirol Innsbruck (AUT) 3,00 Palma Mallorca (ESP) 1,25
20:30 Lube Banca Macerata (ITA) 1,10 Levski Sofia (BUL) 5,00
20:30 Noliko Maaseik (BEL) 1,90 Dinamo Moscow (RUS) 1,70
20:30 Numancia Soria (ESP) 3,40 Panathinaikos Athens (GRE) 1,20

25.01.2007

18:00 Olympiakos Pireus (GRE) 1,15 hotVolleys Vienna (AUT) 4,00
20:30 Banca Lannutti Cuneo (ITA) 1,05 Vojvodina Novi Sad (SRB) 6,00


Any infos about injuries? Or maybe some team won't play in full squad?

[galilee]

Panathinaikos is going to Spain to face Numancia without some important players as they have already qualified. Specifically Marcelo, Gomez and Baev did not travel with the team.

[Raver]

Is it matter if qualified teams end group on 1st or 3rd position?

[simonis]

Yes, it is important to win group in order to geat "weaker" opponent in next stage.

Maaseik plays 100th CL match and will be eager to win this one as well at home.

[galilee]

Not 100% sure but here is how I think it goes.

Top 3 qualify from each group. Best 4th placed team of all groups also qualifies replacing the team hosting the final 4 (Din. Moscow - they go straight to the final 4).

12 qualified teams get in a draw and play two legs home-away. There are no seeded teams in the best of my knowledge.

6 winners from the previous round get in another draw over two legs again.

3 teams emerge and join the hosts to the final 4.

Hope that helps.

[galilee]

Going through the regulations right now, which are a bit complicated...

Two important rules, I think...

- to determine the opponents of the Playoff matches as well as the semi final matched, the drawing of the lots will be prepared in such a way that the teams of the same LEAGUE POOL will not meet each other in the play-off matches.

- Team from the same country will not compete in the final.

More info... http://www.cev.lu/mmp/online/website.../index_EN.html

[galilee]

Originally Posted by simonis

Yes, it is important to win group in order to geat "weaker" opponent in next stage.

Do you know this for a fact simonis or you are just supposing it should be like that?

Nothing in the regulations (at least the part I read) points out that winners of the group get "weaker" opponents. Taking a look at the tables, I believe that Panathinanikos would not field a fringe team tonight if that was the case as they are currently first and they could stay first if they want.

By the way, there is a chance for the first Soria win imo due to the misses of Panathinaikos.

Numancia Soria - Panathinaikos - Homewin @ 3.75 (ladbrokes)

[k1k0]

1 BEL - Knack Randstad ROESELARE 8 7 1 15 23 10 2.300 765 720 1.062
2 ITA - Lube Banca Marche MACERATA 8 5 3 13 20 10 2.000 717 646 1.110
3 POL - BOT SKRA BELCHATOW 8 5 3 13 17 17 1.000 788 773 1.019
4 BUL - Levski Siconco SOFIA 8 4 4 12 15 15 1.000 662 678 0.976
5 GRE - Olympiacos PIRAEUS 8 2 6 10 10 20 0.500 652 704 0.926
6 AUT - aon hotVolleys VIENNA 8 1 7 9 9 22 0.409 663 726 0.913

Macerata after a shaky form in the opening part of the season is doing pretty well now. Their match against Levski today will be important as their defeat there can prevent them from qualifying to the next stage. Levski is a typical home team, recently they beat Belchatow-in-a-slight-crisis but in their domestic league they didn't impress against local rival CSKA. Mind that match was played on Monday evening and Levski had to arrive Macerata in a meantime. Alright, today's hosts were beat in Rome last Sunday in straight sets but the score is a little bit misleading as it was a very tight match.
Me and all the rest of volleyball fans , l presume, would rather see Macerata with still stunning Miljkovic and Geric in the next stage
The bookies also see a huge fav in hosts so I put only 4 units on UNDER160,5 @ 1.72 Unibet

Macerata's lineup from Rome:
Paparoni, Dennis, Rodrigao, Sintini, Geric, Miljkovic - Corsano [L]

[simonis]

Can't find it in the regulations. But I read in Belgian newspaper that it is important, on site of Roeselare it is written that they are determined to take first place, wouldn't aim for it and write it on theur site if it wasn't important imo. Think it will be like in euroleague, where it is important to finish higher.
About Pana, there are allways teams that rest players even if they lose first place, look at Uefa CL...

[k1k0]

Originally Posted by simonis

Can't find it in the regulations. But I read in Belgian newspaper that it is important, on site of Roeselare it is written that they are determined to take first place, wouldn't aim for it and write it on theur site if it wasn't important imo. Think it will be like in euroleague, where it is important to finish higher.
About Pana, there are allways teams that rest players even if they lose first place, look at Uefa CL...

Moreover, mind that some teams which are huge favs of the whole league like Belgorod, Macerata and maybe Sisley and Cuneo will be ranked 2nd or 3rd if only they manage to qualify so winning the group is not a great privilege in such case.

[galilee]

Originally Posted by simonis

Can't find it in the regulations. But I read in Belgian newspaper that it is important, on site of Roeselare it is written that they are determined to take first place, wouldn't aim for it and write it on theur site if it wasn't important imo. Think it will be like in euroleague, where it is important to finish higher.
About Pana, there are allways teams that rest players even if they lose first place, look at Uefa CL...

ok mate, I am not taking the piss, CEV can be a strange place and stranger things than non-seeded teams have happened (top-teams cup regulations is a nice example). As I said before I am not 100% sure but reading through the regulations, it seems that the only rule concerning next round is that teams from the same group will not be facing each other.

Anyone who know how things stand for a fact, will be doing us a favour here

[ElCid]

1) Levski had a tough match on Monday vs CSKA, they managed to take the win by 3-1 (that fourth set was really exciting, ending 28-30). I guess they won't be that fresh, in addition important player Yordanov (1st scorer of CL) has agreed to sign for Olympiacos (I don't know if he's gonna play his last game for Levski tonight).

2)PAO had a difficult period with injuries, but now the guys are getting back, and this team has quality in the bench, as well. Marcelo is in the team, and as for Gomez, Baev and Andreadis (that's the third), their reserves proved their value by smashing Olympiacos in the local derby 3 days ago. I expect them to play relaxed, but what I have seen from Numancia Soria in the first game here in Athens, doesn't make me believe they can challenge PAO, although the odds are very attractive.

edit:Marcelo is out, my mistake.

[Filipo]

what is the situation at Belchatow ?? Playing against the leaders and after 2 losses i think that they are obligated to win. some Polish info or Belgium ??

[conqvistadorE]

Originally Posted by ElCid

in addition important player Yordanov (1st scorer of CL) has agreed to sign for Olympiacos (I don't know if he's gonna play his last game for Levski tonight).

He will play for sure ...

[k1k0]

Gosh, it was absolutely the wrong choice. I should have taken handicap instead of under, less stress. Btw who knows how many matchballs Macerata wasted in 2nd set?

[galilee]

Numancia - Panathinaikos 3-2

That's the way I like it.

[k1k0]

Originally Posted by galilee

Numancia - Panathinaikos 3-2

That's the way I like it.

Yes, cheers for all goodwill people for the insider information.

[gatreman]

galilee thanks for the huge 3,75! you make my day mate!

p.s. someone almost talked me out of the bet but thank god, I was on it.

[galilee]

Thx guys, it was a close one but I would have been ok even if the bet did not come through in the end. After all you don't find every day underdogs @ 3.75 that give you such a run for your money.

The above comments do not mean that the tie-break did not make me a very happy man (and quite richer i might add) last night. Well done Numancia.

[ElCid]

Numancia was super-lucky, as before the game starter blocker Pantaleon was diagnosed a serious health problem, and couldn't play, so the guests had to field injured Andreadis, and they had overall 7 players (5 starters were out). Now, for a game they didn't care, it would be too much to risk anything else. Bad luck for PAO this year, injuries happening all the time.

[galilee]

Look mate, what I have been saying since yesterday is that 3.75 was way too much for Numancia at home against an ingury-plagued and unmotivated Panathinaikos. Numancia even if they did not have a single win in the group never stopped fighting for their pride (as their recent results show) and managed a win finally. Personally I do think that even if Pantaleon was playing, Numancia would still give me a run for my money and as I said in my previous post a potential loss would not change what I am saying here. Now you can call this luck and I can call this a biased opinion from yourself (as I guess Panathinaikos is the team you support) but these are all subjective stands and count for very little.

Hope Pantaleon has a quick recovery from this shocking health adventure.

[ElCid]

Hmm, I don't think we understand each other. I didn't say that you bet counting on luck, I said that I find Numancia was extremely lucky, that last moment Pantaleon was taken out, and this unmotivated, indeed, PAO had to play without blockers yday, if you follow this sport you know what playing without 2 of your 3 blockers means, nothing more to add. You can call it, luck helps the bold people, and I cannot see the slightest problem in that. But since you look to be following the sport, you probably know that even Numancia were fighting all their games doesn't mean anything, it's a matter of ability, as much as they fought, if PAO wanted to win, they would win. I believe that if Pantaleon was there, PAO would win easily, however that's sports and I can't tell for sure PAO wouldn't lose, either, like it happened, and I have no doubt Numancia would fight as much as to give a run for your money @ this very good 3.75, which became a real bargain after the fact of this player's injury, if bookies had known this, probably the 3.75 would have been 1.75.
As for the biased opinion thing, better let it go, coz I had watched the first game in Athens, so I know first hand the difference in strength between PAO and Numancia, and it's obvious the gap is big (bigger than the one between PAO and Friedrischafen, let's say). Btw, the team that I support has nothing to do with all this, you said it yourself this game had no interest at all for the guests.

[galilee]

Do you really think that just watching the first game in Athens (and probably most Pao games) renders your opinion not biased? It's not that hard to watch greek teams playing in the competition this year as most of their home games are covered from the greek tv and personally I have watched more than enough volleyball in my life (including greek teams).

Numancia fighting means A LOT as if they had given up trying, I would not be on them even if the odds were up to 5. I would also NOT bet on them if Pao had all the players in the team OR if they did have something to fight for as the difference in quality between the two teams is more than obvious. That of course does not mean that Pao did not want to win. They were unmotivated, they had nothing to play for, they couldn't care less all I can accept but NOT wanting to win is a bald statement my friend.

However bookies did not have the right odds in the first place and not after Pantaleon's absence. De Miguel had a mere 40% receiving the ball yesterday and Numancia still won so beforehand I could not expect Pantaleon's absence but I surely could expect a better performance from him. Imo value was on my side @ 3.75 with or without unlucky Pantaleon.

Enough said, I will answer to no more posts in the forum concerning this game as I don't think this is interesting for other people. It is obvious we have different opinions on this so...

[ElCid]

ok, you said "enough said", but you also wrote this:

Originally Posted by galilee

Do you really think that just watching the first game in Athens (and probably most Pao games) renders your opinion not biased? It's not that hard to watch greek teams playing in the competition this year as most of their home games are covered from the greek tv and personally I have watched more than enough volleyball in my life (including greek teams).

what renders my opinion as non-biased (since you brought up this biased-thing first), is just my crisis, for which I really don't care to bring prooves. Because when PAO play Piacenza in the semifinal of TTC, and odds are even, my logic beats my sentiment, and I have to bet on Piacenza. Just an example. As for watching the games, we are lucky indeed that TV got them regularly, however in the specific game I was in the hall, and this usually makes a difference.

As for the odds thing, one more time: you did very well, and in now way did I want to degrade your contribution (I'm curious how this conclusion was made), but it's about our difference in perspective of this sport. Somehow, I'm hesitant to chase the ML (note: NOT the HC) in underdogs in this sport, unless the favourites face many problems. No motivation isn't among them (I agree that PAO didn't go there to lose, they wanted to win, no doubt, even if they wouldn't exhaust themselves in order to do that). To put it another way, if I knew about this last-moment absence of PAO in time, I would take Numancia even in odds like 1.75, while I was hesitant for this 3.75, just because of this one player. It's about different opinions, as you said.

Cheers