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Old 28-06-18, 18:09   #1
Wilson
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Default Round of 16 - 30.06. 16:00 France - Argentina

2.36 3.08 3.42
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Old 29-06-18, 12:05   #2
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Very complicated match with 1 team "FRANCE" that didn't show anything at all (no pleasure, no teamplay etc..) and another one "ARG" that has a very poor middfield and defense but who can change his players or improve match after match because they show envy (at least on the last match)

Is not envy more important than lack of ardor/passion?
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Old 29-06-18, 12:10   #3
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Envy means jealous.
Don***8217;t get you..
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Old 29-06-18, 12:14   #4
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Well it depends.. & i'm french...

Just tired of the way france is playing
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Old 29-06-18, 13:15   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Karl-Heinz View Post
Envy means jealous.
Don***8217;t get you..
I think he meant "eager" or "hungry".

I think this is going to be a completely different scenario for Argentina. Against both Iceland and Nigeria they clearly were expected to lead the game and win. Even against Croatia it was expected from them to be the more active team. With their poor defense and zero creativity in midfield, Argentina gets very exposed when trying to have more possession and move their lines higher up the pitch.

Now this is the first game when Argentina is not expected to be leading the game and have superior possession. In this scenario Argies will probably feel much more comfortable and their formation with 3 center backs and 2 full backs will be more efficient.

All here is pointing towards a low scoring affair, unless some lucky early goal opens the game up.
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Old 29-06-18, 15:04   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Miccho View Post
I think he meant "eager" or "hungry".

...
I think so too.
Or desire.
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Old 29-06-18, 17:04   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Miccho View Post
I think he meant "eager" or "hungry".

I think this is going to be a completely different scenario for Argentina. Against both Iceland and Nigeria they clearly were expected to lead the game and win. Even against Croatia it was expected from them to be the more active team. With their poor defense and zero creativity in midfield, Argentina gets very exposed when trying to have more possession and move their lines higher up the pitch.

Now this is the first game when Argentina is not expected to be leading the game and have superior possession. In this scenario Argies will probably feel much more comfortable and their formation with 3 center backs and 2 full backs will be more efficient.

All here is pointing towards a low scoring affair, unless some lucky early goal opens the game up.
this comfortableness may cost them a game, sure France is not showing anything but they pas the group stage so this tell something
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Old 29-06-18, 17:44   #8
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I favor France but Argentina could be dangerous here. Sampaoli's Argentina struggled in all group matches because Argentina could not break down defensively-oriented teams. This match is more suited to Sampaoli's approach because Argentina go in as underdogs and could strike on the counter... Thus, this match is more suited to Sampaoli's inclinations and Argentina's strengths. Nonetheless, they still seem a bit imbalanced and are clearly better offensively... No bet for me. Overall this seems priced right - I can't see value in the 1X2 market.
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Old 29-06-18, 17:45   #9
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I think that Argies have a problem with good strategy of defending which used Cro and Nigeria.They placed whole team on own part of pitch and left side.And between that much players not Messi nor Jesus Christ can score.France played relaxing game in last round and I wouldn t take as a real strenght of team.Think that crucial thing will be who will score first.On that depending Over/under scenario.Argies need Dybala despertly on the right side of pitch-to make balance.
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Old 29-06-18, 20:34   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Miccho View Post
I think he meant "eager" or "hungry".

I think this is going to be a completely different scenario for Argentina. Against both Iceland and Nigeria they clearly were expected to lead the game and win. Even against Croatia it was expected from them to be the more active team. With their poor defense and zero creativity in midfield, Argentina gets very exposed when trying to have more possession and move their lines higher up the pitch.

Now this is the first game when Argentina is not expected to be leading the game and have superior possession. In this scenario Argies will probably feel much more comfortable and their formation with 3 center backs and 2 full backs will be more efficient.

All here is pointing towards a low scoring affair, unless some lucky early goal opens the game up.
So, you could bet Argentina under 57.5% posession with high stake yesterday.

Now, Argentina should approach the game extremely defensive, as Mascherano said, with no striker and Messi in that fake 9 position alongisde Di Maria & Pavon, so Aguero & Higuain at the bench.

Look at: Aguero, Higuain & Dybala at the bench.

Enzo Perez will arrive to the game, a player that Paoli didn't put in first 23 list, and will play 3 out 4 games in this WC.

Difficult scenario for ARG. In 2014 Sabella's style was playable, because Biglia & Masche could hold the team, and the strenght of players that could cover spaces & run the countrs. This year is a epic one.

At least, Benega for himself has more creativity that the whole France team, so it's not all lost.
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Old 29-06-18, 23:42   #11
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Even if i like Messi, they are nowhere near to be called a team. They are playing in awful system with bunch of mediocre players and with Messi playing out of his position. They rely to much on him but who to rely on?? Meza? Pavon? Also their defense i catastrophic-old, slow, no clean sheet and no solid GK! Yes France didn't meet expectation but they got through with just 1 goal allowed. And they have massive potential upfront which can click any second. So i would rather put money on good defensive unit with good potential upfront but didn't show it, than on porous defense that has one classy player but the rest awful and also struggle offensively. Iceland put them on pressure and in that 1st half every their attack was dangerous.
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Old 29-06-18, 23:49   #12
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Of course there is an option that Messi will shine but there are two options in my mind, France to win (maybe go through if odds are ok) and over 2 goals because i don't think it will end with 1-0, 0-0 no way imho.
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Old 30-06-18, 01:49   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hashishmaster View Post
Even if i like Messi, they are nowhere near to be called a team. They are playing in awful system with bunch of mediocre players and with Messi playing out of his position. They rely to much on him but who to rely on?? Meza? Pavon? Also their defense i catastrophic-old, slow, no clean sheet and no solid GK! Yes France didn't meet expectation but they got through with just 1 goal allowed. And they have massive potential upfront which can click any second. So i would rather put money on good defensive unit with good potential upfront but didn't show it, than on porous defense that has one classy player but the rest awful and also struggle offensively. Iceland put them on pressure and in that 1st half every their attack was dangerous.
Absolutely agree. I expected odds on France like 2,00-2,10. Simply because they are better although they havent shown it yet.
2,40-2,50 is to much I think.
Only the player Messi does these odds. Without him it would be sth like 1,7
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Old 30-06-18, 08:55   #14
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The real Argentina's problem is obviously the system and the players. With Lo Celeso as number 6 and Messi as a "free" player (playing at the position he wants) Aguero alone upfront it would totally change the Argentinian gameplan, the players on the wings are absolutely useless for Argentina it's like playing with 2 less players. All the game must turn around Messi and obviously in the center of pitch. But Sampaoli is a total joke and for sure we are going to see the same players and same system again and again with Meza, Pavon, Acuna...

France have been a big joke as well, Pogba is the biggest joke in the history of football. so it's hard to predict this game, might be destinated for a boring 0-0.

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Old 30-06-18, 11:54   #15
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imo argentina's problem is in the players inferiority complex.. you'd never think they have it because a lot of them play at big clubs. the star players feel the pressure and their creativity suffers because of that. di maria has been utter ... so far. everyone shifts their responsibilities to messi not realizing what makes messi great and that clearly isnt slaloming through 10 man defense by himself. he is great at exploiting even a little space but he cant create it by himself.. and yet everyone else stays in like 10m radius away from him, does that even make sense lol. well, enough about argentina, they wont get any better than this with these players, unfortunately.

france so far has been very average but you cant deny the quality they have. imo, in terms of quality clearly superior than this argentina squad. so far they have faced relatively well organized teams and couldnt score much. cant deny the fact they dont play like a team though and thats a major part of it as well. but against argentina whose defense is like swiss cheese.. you dont need a lot to score. i am fairly confident mbappe/griezmann/dembele can win 1 on 1 battles and get to dangerous areas relatively easily. france has tall players as well and that makes them a threat in set piece situations and that GK problem argentina is having just contributes.

basically, i think argentina will be forced to open up because france even with their laid-back attitude should be able to score at least once. therefore the odds on goals are way too high. sure, neither team would want to risk it but a it stands france have the edge while argentinas defense has proven it cant be trusted. we saw what happened to argentina when they opened up against croatia and i can see something similar happen today. however, there's no denying the quality in this argentina side either, although in my opinion its lower than that of france. the french wing backs arent exactly the most solid defensively or the quickest, i think they can have some troubles. the problem is there's no one to finish up argentina's attacks, well, so far that is, and its interesting because its not like they lack top strikers, the problem is obviously elsewhere.
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Old 30-06-18, 14:27   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wilson View Post
The real Argentina's problem is obviously the system and the players. With Lo Celeso as number 6 and Messi as a "free" player (playing at the position he wants) Aguero alone upfront it would totally change the Argentinian gameplan, the players on the wings are absolutely useless for Argentina it's like playing with 2 less players. All the game must turn around Messi and obviously in the center of pitch. But Sampaoli is a total joke and for sure we are going to see the same players and same system again and again with Meza, Pavon, Acuna...

France have been a big joke as well, Pogba is the biggest joke in the history of football. so it's hard to predict this game, might be destinated for a boring 0-0.
My thoughts exactly...
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Old 30-06-18, 14:38   #17
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Higuain out, Pavon in.
4-3-3 for Argentina.
Messi as a free 9 behind di-maria and Pavon.
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Old 30-06-18, 14:56   #18
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I think we see a game similar to that between Argentina v Croatia. Sampaoli always sets up his teams to control possession while Deschamps has shown this tournament that he's happy to sit back, even against weaker opposition. Should be a pretty entertaining game with the chance for plenty of violence from both sides.

Argentina corner match bet @ 2.62
Over 4.5 cards @ 2.34
France over 1.5 goals @ 2.75
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Old 30-06-18, 15:00   #19
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Quote:
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Higuain out, Pavon in.
4-3-3 for Argentina.
Messi as a free 9 behind di-maria and Pavon.
Could be a masterstroke by Sampaoli to switch to a back 4 and bring in Pavon.
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Old 30-06-18, 15:26   #20
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Who picks this kind of lineup??! They want to lose on purpose it seems.
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Old 30-06-18, 16:14   #21
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Quote:
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I think we see a game similar to that between Argentina v Croatia. Sampaoli always sets up his teams to control possession while Deschamps has shown this tournament that he's happy to sit back, even against weaker opposition. Should be a pretty entertaining game with the chance for plenty of violence from both sides.

Argentina corner match bet @ 2.62
Over 4.5 cards @ 2.34
France over 1.5 goals @ 2.75
Perfect start...c’mon!
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Old 30-06-18, 16:50   #22
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Argies are being totally outclassed but ofc Deschamps instead going for the jugular goes back, digs a hole and hides in it. Ofc talking about how predictable football is, DiMaria played like a total clown all games and comes up with a screamer in knock-out!
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Old 30-06-18, 17:40   #23
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Yeh I didn***8217;t think that Di Maria existed anymore. Nice gol

Deschamps will get away with this tactic because Sampaoli is tactically inept, it will cost them in next round(s). They sit deep and afford teams too much space, with no bite in their closing down.
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Old 30-06-18, 17:59   #24
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France still conceded 3 goals against this poor Argentina. Fazio's entering was mistake IMO but it's not something surprising from Sampaoli.

I feel bad for Argentina but happy to see this joke of coach out of World cup.
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Old 30-06-18, 17:59   #25
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Great game, hope that Deschamps will learn that he don't need do defend after scoring first. Deserved victory for France and all well known fragilities that Argentina has were show today. They also had luck with 2nd goal but they didn't deserve to anything more that this.
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Old 30-06-18, 18:09   #26
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No surprise regarding who has qualify. This is the "legacy" of Maradona, Messi at this country. No wonder they have done nothing big the last years with an exception of some great players some years back.

- The most obvious thing someone can notice is that no coach has work with this team. There is no "1-2", neither fast transition in their game. There is only "one player get the ball and try alone the unnecessary extra something". And i'm not talking about Messi cause compare to the others, he is a much more team player. But again, this is their legacy. They have to play like that, they have to compete each other who is the better player, they have to do things solo. Messi simple cannot play at this team.

- The second and obvious again thing is the selection of players. Wrong from the very start, before leaving Argentina. Wrong at every game as a result. As an extend of the coach thing above, the selected players are like hobbits compare to other teams.

On the other hand, France looks strong but the only thing they had to do is play counter attack game at most of it since they had to face a group of bad defenders and a team at which 5-6 players in attack "must become the scorer" and forget how to defend as a "team". France show against Denmark and Australia that they struggle against teams that are playing defensively. And at the next round, they will face one from the pair of ultra defensive teams, Portugal or Uruguay. I prefer to have my feet on the ground than going hyper just because France won 4-2 against this Agrentina team. I'm not saying that France is a bad team, i'm just putting down all the facts.

Matuidi is out btw from the next game
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Old 30-06-18, 18:17   #27
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It was a cracker. But nobody could have predicted Pavard scoring that beauty, or DiMaria. Sometimes thing just happen, out of any kind of logic, so we have to remind ourself that we are using a very limited tool called logic in this wild world. Still i enjoyed altghough bit mad for France being down, but it would have been a travesty for this Argentina to eliminate France. And we saw France has definitelly weakeness but unlike group games they up their offensive game, full backs were much more into the game, Hernandez was a pleasure to watch, while Pavard owned by DiMaria defensivelly, had good contribution offensivelly. But midfield looks too pasive and its hard to really asses a team against such a mess of a team. Huge difference in quality, odds should have been way lower. Some good posts in here from Hashish or Fighter.
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Old 30-06-18, 18:17   #28
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And one more thing to add is the how much VAR has change the game. And this goes for all teams but i'm posting this here since Argentina has some dirty players too.

When VAR wasn't exist, the defender had more "courage" to make a dirty tackling inside the box. There was always a chance that his teammate will block the view of the referee. There was always a chance that the ref and his assistants wont see everything inside the box. With VAR now in our life, the defenders are doing second thoughts to go hard on an opponent or to do dirty things. This has change the game a lot and as a result, it allows more goals to be seen.
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Old 01-07-18, 01:13   #29
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Yep good point on VAR. I would also add that it emboldens referee decision making because they know that if they get it wrong VAR will fix it, while if they miss it they look bad. For example there have been a record 25 penalties awarded so far, 10 by VAR, overall an increase over past WC even accounting for VAR.
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Old 01-07-18, 03:34   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by latortuga View Post
I think we see a game similar to that between Argentina v Croatia. Sampaoli always sets up his teams to control possession while Deschamps has shown this tournament that he's happy to sit back, even against weaker opposition. Should be a pretty entertaining game with the chance for plenty of violence from both sides.

Argentina corner match bet @ 2.62
Over 4.5 cards @ 2.34
France over 1.5 goals @ 2.75
Nice, 3 of 3 ***128170;***128512;
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