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Old 02-07-18, 00:01   #31
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Originally Posted by MarianoV6 View Post
Well yes and that is a good thing. I must have enjoyed Peru vs Denmark more than France v Argentina, it was a much better game to watch. But that's exactly the issue, from the better teams you expect to enjoy better games. That's the logic at least behind everything. You don't sign a better player because you expect the same crap things as the ones you have.

I did enjoy some games but the overall feeling from the WC is disappointing (regarding level always)
This is very strange. We have discussions daily on a local forum, and the general opinion is that this WC is the best in terms of entertaining football in a long time. And we have people who had watched 82 and 86 (like myself), so can compare. I mean, Colombia-Poland, France-Argentina, Uruguay-Portugal, Sweden-Germany, Nigeria-Argentina...So many entertaining matches... Also Belgium, Croatia, Brazil, Spain, really liked to watch them here. A lot of excellent football.
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Old 02-07-18, 00:09   #32
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Mariano, honestly, compared to club football, the level is very, very low. I think MLS level is much higher than this of 80% of the teams and probably some teams like Toronto or New York City could have made it at least to 1/4 finals at the World Cup.

But of course, World Cup is special, because of its emotional aspect, which is unmatched. Everybody watching football during WC, including women and old people. This makes it so special.

I dunno, but maybe the governing bodies should think about some major reforms, so that they can make International tournaments more competitive. Maybe all the qualifiers should take place simultaneously for a month or two, so that the teams develop team chemistry and cohesion.
Miccho, I have such a great respect for your knowledge of football, and your notes about this WC are exceptionally accurate as well. But to compare WC level to club football?! I think WC is the highest level of all football by far, only CL playoffs can compare. Not only most of the world's best players play here, but there's also additional motivational factor because of patriotism, because they play for their countries and for their people. Some teams maybe haven't played to their full potential yet because they were saving energy for the playoffs and possible final, but I really enjoy watching most games at this WC and think the quality of football is very high indeed.

As for the atmosphere yes, the main impression from this WC is not the football itself but the atmosphere, people on colors dancing and singing in the streets and at the bars, especially people from Latin America, it's like great festivities, like carnival. Never seen anything like that here in St.Petersburg before.
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Old 02-07-18, 00:13   #33
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this tournament is turning into a joke, nothing else. And no, i didn't lost any bet and said that cause i haven't take any the last three days. The level of everything is a big joke
Is it maybe because your team got eliminated? Spain should have won the game in the first half already I think, they had the game in their own hands, but going 1-0 up they essentially stopped attacking, or at least lowered the intensity. They have themselves to blame for the elimination, not Russia who are rather mediocre, but wanted it more.
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Old 02-07-18, 07:57   #34
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Mate the level of football is just bad and thats it. There was definitelly better WCs but ive seen even worse than this. Few good games and brilliant individual executions wont change this. I mean there are some ridiculous games out there: first two games of Uruguay in group stages were absolute ugly, France games in groups; watch yesterday games, what's so entertainement about that and watch it like a neutral just judging the players performance and i could go on.Goals from all kind of mistakes, keepers cant save a decent shot, negative tactics but that happens every WC more or less, this time looks like more mainly because the big guns where we sat our expectations higher disappointed. And if for you Uruguay-Portugal is entertainement...men, a team parking the bus for 70 min and refusing to play and the other looking clueless and slow like a turtle, sorry but i see this kind of movie in every romanian league round and somehow i dont find it entertainement; explain what can you possible like there, except the Uruguay goals.
And ofc it has to do with players, coaches underperforming, look at Guedes: a beast in Valencia shirt and an absolute mug in Russia, or B. Silva just to name a few. Refs with VAR on their side and still can give cheap penalties and miss obvious one's, clearly underperforming.
Some people just have different expectations. Yes club football its way better, the level is just miles away but ofc its way easier at clubs, they have all the time in the world to prepaire and work with the same players day in and day out, at NT you just cant do that. WC is special for many other reasons but the football played here is just crap for me. I should definitelly lower my expectations and enjoy crap football, it looks possible looking at your post or Macot's
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Old 02-07-18, 08:43   #35
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Originally Posted by footballeye View Post
This is very strange. We have discussions daily on a local forum, and the general opinion is that this WC is the best in terms of entertaining football in a long time. And we have people who had watched 82 and 86 (like myself), so can compare. I mean, Colombia-Poland, France-Argentina, Uruguay-Portugal, Sweden-Germany, Nigeria-Argentina...So many entertaining matches... Also Belgium, Croatia, Brazil, Spain, really liked to watch them here. A lot of excellent football.
Well, it's ok, some people like it and some others don't, and that's ok. For my taste, this is crap tournament, i had higher expectations. I don't like also to see people mixing Halloween with football at the stands but maybe i'm too weird

I have seen also many WC and EC, yes, some were not good. But there was some that were much higher than this one. I remember Germany mugging mostly at their second game at the group stage but they had won their first game and their third and it was part of their plan. This time, they were in danger to be eliminated at their third game and they decided to mug at that one. I simple cannot believe what i saw and surely cannot accept that.

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Is it maybe because your team got eliminated? Spain should have won the game in the first half already I think, they had the game in their own hands, but going 1-0 up they essentially stopped attacking, or at least lowered the intensity. They have themselves to blame for the elimination, not Russia who are rather mediocre, but wanted it more.
Maybe you got offended but i already said that we were idiots and we got what we deserved (which also means that Russia got what they deserved too). Never was my intention to offend your country, i was just having more expectation from mine. Hope it is more clear this time and well done for qualification!
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Old 02-07-18, 09:03   #36
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Mate the level of football is just bad and thats it. There was definitelly better WCs but ive seen even worse than this. Few good games and brilliant individual executions wont change this. I mean there are some ridiculous games out there: first two games of Uruguay in group stages were absolute ugly, France games in groups; watch yesterday games, what's so entertainement about that and watch it like a neutral just judging the players performance and i could go on.Goals from all kind of mistakes, keepers cant save a decent shot, negative tactics but that happens every WC more or less, this time looks like more mainly because the big guns where we sat our expectations higher disappointed. And if for you Uruguay-Portugal is entertainement...men, a team parking the bus for 70 min and refusing to play and the other looking clueless and slow like a turtle, sorry but i see this kind of movie in every romanian league round and somehow i dont find it entertainement; explain what can you possible like there, except the Uruguay goals.
And ofc it has to do with players, coaches underperforming, look at Guedes: a beast in Valencia shirt and an absolute mug in Russia, or B. Silva just to name a few. Refs with VAR on their side and still can give cheap penalties and miss obvious one's, clearly underperforming.
Some people just have different expectations. Yes club football its way better, the level is just miles away but ofc its way easier at clubs, they have all the time in the world to prepaire and work with the same players day in and day out, at NT you just cant do that. WC is special for many other reasons but the football played here is just crap for me. I should definitelly lower my expectations and enjoy crap football, it looks possible looking at your post or Macot's
You are all forgetting psychological aspect of this event, huge pressure on managers and players, it was obvious yesterday in Croatias match.
If you for instance check quality in any competition, the majority is "crap" as you call it, I would say the majority are games that are not nice to watch due to different reasons. There are no expections, not Champions League, not national leagues, not even kids u10 matches around the world...
But I agree we can see competition with different expectations and through different lenses.
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Old 02-07-18, 09:18   #37
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At club level, talking about highest level, bus parking is no problem for big guns, Royal or Barca, Bayern, Juve etc. have no problems in breaking bunkers for example, but at NT its still very much game on. Negative teams are actually more succesfull than positive ones. Its prolly just a trend but the football is very pragmatic this days. We saw how Portugal won the euros.Attacking nations like Spain or Germany failed miserably. Negative footy and bunkers kicked them without mercy, plus their own issues, first they selfimploded.France has all the talent in the world to show great attacking footy but they play pragmatic, defensive minded. Uruguay will all the respect i have for them playing 2strikers up-front, a rarity this days, they are very hard on the eye, ugly team, parks the bus and kills a game in a blink of an eye, so negative tactics saved by the tremendous class and work rate of their great duo. Croatia also has the potential to play great attacking but they chose pragmatism, cant blame them, small country, top-4 will be great achievement. Brazil ofc youd expect samba but ofc went for pragmatism. Belgium is maybe playing more to their strenghts but i wouldnt rate them offensive minded, still a good team to watch given their talent size. England rebuilding but lacking the talent. Sweden or Switzerland, pragmatism all the way. It is the way it is, and its definitelly not entertaining. Actually that bit of entertaining came from disorganised teams like argies, Spain or Germany and bit of a talent. But its about results, WC and in general football is about results, not football played. Its foolish to expect entertainement, they dont care about that they care only about results but given the level of pragmatism yea we actually had some good games so in the end its also about which half of the glass you chose to watch, the full one or empty one. But what if the glass is 3 quarters empty, how can you watch the only quarter that is full and say thats what dominates the world. How do you do it, Macot?
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Old 02-07-18, 09:20   #38
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I think this Wc is not on good level too i mean simply we dont have strong teams this year when wc started and i bet every time on winner it was strange i did not had team to say ok they are realy good in example Spain frome 2010 or Germany 2014 would be walking trough the park on this wc. Also many teams to me dont look hunger enough to win this . Dont know but to me also very low quality games but that does not mean they were not enterteining. TEams like Spain, Germany, Argentina was not suprise to me they were eliminated if Spain went trough i would go against them in qf . Same i expect from England if not against Columbia, Croats will eliminate them in Semi finales
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Old 02-07-18, 11:34   #39
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Noone sees potential in England
I might be biased, but the fact is they are reinging World Champions in u17 and u20 and that tells me they do have talent.
We will see...
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Old 02-07-18, 12:07   #40
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Like already stated here. Compare how many days a year a Champions Leauge club traing together with how many days any countries national team have trained together, and there's your answer. Defending is often easier than attacking, there's another answer. I don't understand how anyone can be surprised. This has been going on for many years now, but still often one of the big elephants wins. Maybe not this time.

Also remember World Cup is only played once in four years. Sure, there's massive of pressure in Champions League also, but you will always (in most cases with the big clubs) get a new chance next year, and the next year, and the year after that... That is not an option in a World Cup. Most players only get to play the World Cup once or twice (and some never!) during their whole career. You need results here and now, there are no second chances.

Football is a team sport, you need to practice often together, get to know your team players very well to play offensivly and entertaining football.
For me the football isn't the best at the World Cup, in a dream world it would be, but it isn't and haven't been for many years now and probably never will be again but it's still often pretty exciting and that makes it entertaining for me.

There's a new format for the next World Cup. I don't think that will change things, except for the fact that we will see even worse teams and even lower quality, but for me the World Cup since long are not about quality...
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Old 02-07-18, 12:35   #41
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Noone sees potential in England
I might be biased, but the fact is they are reinging World Champions in u17 and u20 and that tells me they do have talent.
We will see...
Well i was talking about this England team, not England in general. How many of those champions are actually in today's team? i guess none, or one isolated case. And i see Solanke lead their way to beating mighty Venezuela, if this is their future...
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Old 02-07-18, 12:44   #42
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Well, who knows? Maybe Venezuela is the new Argentina in the future.
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Old 02-07-18, 13:51   #43
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I remembered now Italy...what was it? WC or EC? They qualify their group with 3 draws (!!!) and i was like "wtf" seeing them playing like that. Crap all the way at the group stage. But still you could see their class. And at the end, Italy won the trophy and it was obvious that they were the higher class team with high quality. I think that tournament was at Germany. No matter how crappy was the whole tournament, you could still see class football and skills. I just didn't see that here. Anyway, just a flash back
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Old 02-07-18, 14:12   #44
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I remembered now Italy...what was it? WC or EC? They qualify their group with 3 draws (!!!) and i was like "wtf" seeing them playing like that. Crap all the way at the group stage. But still you could see their class. And at the end, Italy won the trophy and it was obvious that they were the higher class team with high quality. I think that tournament was at Germany. No matter how crappy was the whole tournament, you could still see class football and skills. I just didn't see that here. Anyway, just a flash back
IT was ITaly in WC 1982, I watched them, they were awful.. but back then you got 1 point for a draw and 2 points for a win.
And in the next round magically they managed to beat best Brasil team that never won the title (Zico) 3-2 and ARgentina 2-1 and France and in finals Germany 3-1!!!
Poker of wins against best teams in early 1980ties...
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Old 02-07-18, 14:18   #45
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Well, who knows? Maybe Venezuela is the new Argentina in the future.
Hey, VEnezuela have great youngsters and in next 3-4 years they could become competitive in South America. We will see.
And it does not matter, England won against Argentina 3-0, Korea 1-0, Guinea 1-1, Costa rica 2-1, Mexico 1-0, Italy 3-1 and in the finals Venezueal 1-0.

It is about the fact that England never (!) ever won anything in youth football and now they have two titles!

They were mighty impressive in u17: Chile 4-0, Mexico 3-2, Iraq 4-0, Japan after penalties, USA 4-1, Brasil 3-1 (!) and in the finals Spain 5-2 (!).
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Old 02-07-18, 23:24   #46
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Maybe you got offended but i already said that we were idiots and we got what we deserved (which also means that Russia got what they deserved too). Never was my intention to offend your country, i was just having more expectation from mine. Hope it is more clear this time and well done for qualification!
Oh no, no offenses, absolutely not. It doesn't matter that the WC is here in Russia, I say that I like it because I haven't enjoyed watching football this much for a long time. Absolutely doesn't matter where the tournament is. And I actually symathise with this Spain squad, so much individual quality, sorry to see them out so early.
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Old 02-07-18, 23:34   #47
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Mate the level of football is just bad and thats it. There was definitelly better WCs but ive seen even worse than this. Few good games and brilliant individual executions wont change this. I mean there are some ridiculous games out there: first two games of Uruguay in group stages were absolute ugly, France games in groups; watch yesterday games, what's so entertainement about that and watch it like a neutral just judging the players performance and i could go on.Goals from all kind of mistakes, keepers cant save a decent shot, negative tactics but that happens every WC more or less, this time looks like more mainly because the big guns where we sat our expectations higher disappointed. And if for you Uruguay-Portugal is entertainement...men, a team parking the bus for 70 min and refusing to play and the other looking clueless and slow like a turtle, sorry but i see this kind of movie in every romanian league round and somehow i dont find it entertainement; explain what can you possible like there, except the Uruguay goals.
And ofc it has to do with players, coaches underperforming, look at Guedes: a beast in Valencia shirt and an absolute mug in Russia, or B. Silva just to name a few. Refs with VAR on their side and still can give cheap penalties and miss obvious one's, clearly underperforming.
Some people just have different expectations. Yes club football its way better, the level is just miles away but ofc its way easier at clubs, they have all the time in the world to prepaire and work with the same players day in and day out, at NT you just cant do that. WC is special for many other reasons but the football played here is just crap for me. I should definitelly lower my expectations and enjoy crap football, it looks possible looking at your post or Macot's
Teams play ugly in early stages because they want to go a long way and not to overextend themselves early. Teams play ugly in playoffs against stronger opposition, because they don't want to be thrashed, and I understand them.
Uruguay-Portugal: Portugal is my favorite team and this defeat was very painful (and cost lost bets too) but Uruguay did excellent job, Torreira, Laxalt, and Christian Rodrigues for example did a great job, I enjoyed them play so well, so it's not only about Suarez/Cavani pair. High quality football by Uruguay. As for Portugal, yes Guedes was a total disaster in the first game and I hoped to never see him play again at this tounament... but wait, he was excellent at club level, not good enough for the WC level, because WC level is much higher, not the other way around I think.
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Old 06-07-18, 17:22   #48
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RIP gili-taka !!
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