View Full Version : When Would Anybody PAY for PICKS
I just read the thread Can FREE tipsters work (http://forum.bettingadvice.com/viewtopic.php?t=32112) and there are great posts about advantages of FREE and PAY services.
I myself am thinking also on joining pay service(s) and started thinking under what criterias would I be willing to pay for betting picks.
Below are my criteries to pay for picks:
Pay service MUST:
- be monitored (only then would I trust this service)
- offer money back in case they don't show profit at the end of the month (only then would I know that they are not only in it for the money )
- reply to any of my email in less then 48 hours (only then would I feel comfortable paying someone)
Pay service SHOULD:
- not charge more then 200 euro for 1 month of picks ( for quality picks from a capper I trust - I'm willing to pay a higher price)
- not have any affiliate banner leading to bookie or casino sign ups (most pay service receives money from these bookies when clients are loosing money from pay service picks -> I can't trust that kind of a pay service)
- write at least a short preview (honestly I don't read a 20 lines analysis but a standard should be around 5 lines)
- write stake of each bet and update pick record after each pick (but I don't like 1-10 units range - always 1 to max 2 units stake)
- write on their web site at what time will picks be sent via emails (also if there is no pick for a certain day I want to receive a mail notifying me of that)
Now I want to know what are your criterias under which:
- you would pay for picks ?
- how much would you still be willing to pay ?
And please no replies in a way ...I would never pay for picks - topic is When Would You Pay !!!
Hi,
There was a lot of talking about that and I don't expect this discussion to advance a lot.
Personally, I am not against paid-services. Your criterias are ok but i would disagree with some of them:
- offer money back in case they don't show profit at the end of the month (only then would I know that they are not only in it for the money )
Betting is more a maraton than 60meters sprint. I do not judge any service if I don't have at least 600 picks or 2 year history. A month under zero profit is something normal also for professional punters and I do not think they are obliged to offer anything back for something they can't counteract.
"only then would I know that they are not only in it for the money " - ever y paid-service is for money, why do you think any of them would be not?
- write at least a short preview (honestly I don't read a 20 lines analysis but a standard should be around 5 lines)
If I found somewhere service with constant 10% yield (f.i after 4 years) I would not expect any preview. They are very helpful and useful but I don agree they are 'a must'.
Anyway, very wise advice and I suggest every paid-service-runner should include this criterias while managing his site.
When would I pay ? A site should:
1. Have prooven history .
2. Decent results (at least 300 units per season)
3. Proper way of betting strategie ( I have a lot of own criterias like proper money managament , handicaping methods etc. Simply: i have to be sure that an owner knows this stuff)
4. Fixed time of posting picks, mail alert of course.
5. Something I would believe he knows the business. Not only 'Hi, I am XXX,. I am a pro and I am known from xxx forum. Remember to vising my site often.
6. Odds should not drop instately after posting picks. Range of used bookies should be clearly written down and limited to few. (no BAW, eurobet etc)
There are few more criterias. So far I have found one such site (a Miller's one) Unfortunately I do not use it , anyway ;)
Now I want to know what are your criterias under which:
1) you would pay for picks ?
2) how much would you still be willing to pay ?
1) That`s nearly so simple as betting on events with valueable odds. And I see here interesting analogy.
It`s simple - I just have to bet on when I find valueable pick. But I can never be sure whether I see value or I don`t.
It`s simple - I just have to pay for picks when I find service providing picks which will give me profit bigger than payments for this service. But I can never be sure whether those picks will give me sufficient profit or they will not.
2) It depends on my budget. Generally I would be able to give an amount which would be at least covered by a profit I expected from these picks.
You can be a good tipster but have a wrong money management and have a negative results. And you can be a very poor tipster but make a good selections and money managament and have a positive results.
So I don`t think buying picks is a blot on somebody's reputation because in my opinion sports betting doesn`t consist in tipstering but in betting on.
However, I think there is a lot of free services which are providing very good picks, too.
So good luck :)
litmanen88
12-06-05, 13:03
Hi,
As you seem to know exactly what you want and know what you are talking about maybe you can help me.
Please have a look at my site www.litmanenbet.com and see how I can improve. I have been a very profitable tipster and decided to make my own mailing list.
But I did not want to charge for this. So instead I made the condition to sign up you had to join my sponsor (I receive a bounty amount or each sign-up - not percentages of losses - as I expect my tips to win so would make very little from this).
Anyway check it out and say I what you think I should add/remove/edit.
Thanks for your help.
I don't mind if payservice would be a completely new service - all I care is, that at the end of the month I made money by betting on their picks.
History means nothing in presence.
Don't get me wrong - I do care if service showed profit in last 3 season in a row but that doesn't mean that if there would be a new service that would offer me a 1st month of (let's say NBA) season for FREE and in that month they would hit 60% or more (at odd 1.91) they would definetly get my attention and money anyday before a 15 years of experience service that would hit 54% in that 1st month.
My point is - you can't expect that someone with years of betting to be any better then a new service starting from ground zero.
Competition is always good for general public.
Also I haven't found a webservice that would meet my 2 MUST criteria (to be monitored and offer 1 month moneyback guarantee).
I think that in 1 month a service should make a profit !!!
I now there are hot and cold streaks but to be cold for 1 month in a row - that's too much for me as a client.
Since service also works on a long time satisfaction of his clients (at least they should work or they will simply run out of clients) then offering a money back is also a guarantee that clients will stay with this service.
And in a long run a service that gives back 1 month of payment back to the clients will get an increase of credibility in the eyes of clients and also a bigger retention of his clients.
Not to mention a spread of good words from their clients to their friends and in different forums where their clients post.
In my opinion this rule says that owner of the service treats betting in unprofessional way. It is not health to treat betting as overnight- profit. What counts for me is profit. I do not care that the site provides so big number of plays like 800 and has only 5% yield and 4 months were on minus if it brought me 400 units of profit.
But of course it is mater of personal choice.
Hmm well,
Actually I don't believe in gettin paid ... it's not necesarry for me ... .
If u pay, the tipster indeed should have a good proven record and for me it's important he has a refund system ... if he doesn't make that % a month, a share of the money goes back to the customer ..
That's my opinion :wink:
I think good solution is paying for units.
For example 1 unit costs 1 EUR.
So for example you buy 100 units, pay 100 EUR and you get picks until they give you profit of 100 units. It is applied for example in magbets.pl and I think it is really honest for customer.
Interesting would be to have a service where you would donate at the end of the month (depending how much you would win by betting on service picks).
Of course a lot of trust in clients would be required from service part.
Because if clients wouldn't want to pay (even if service would make 10% profit at the end of the month) or pay 10 euro for 1 month work - then this service would run out of energy and motivation.
I give you an example cause I have a paid-service.
In February we had +100units which I would like to call quite a good number. But in March/April together we were -16units. These things happen. A lot of subscribers left us at the end of April then and missed a plus of +100 in May again and its now +220units in the fifth month.
I like to agree that at the end of a month there should be profit, but however, you sometimes need a long breath to make good profit. If I had finished all four months with a plus of like +20 units it wouldnt be much better in the end just because there have always been positive numbers - au contraire!!!
When you pay those unrealistic prices like 200E you should get your 200E of course back. But most service take so little fees under 50E that they can just pay their costs with that money and when all employees get their share its just nothing more than a good tip they deserve for the energy and nerves they maybe wasted.
Preview like 5 lines or even just 20??? What a crap! People who dont provide you more dont deserve any dime. When you know your sport by heart you should be able to analyze everything with passion and so on.
... hmm.... seems to be allways the same discussion about payed services and at the end I think there is allways the same fault in thinking in the discussion.
If we talk about payed services in betting, first thing (IMO) we have to do is to stop thinking as a sports-bettor, because when we pay for tips, then our number one aim is to make money (... no fun, no hobby) and just money !!!
The ones that need the excitement of betting surely need the excitement of finding the info, getting the right result, finding the value ... everything that makes sports-betting exciting. But for this you surely do not need a payed service who makes all the work for you !!!
A payed service has to provide profit over a special term (every year) and has to be better than the offers my bank give to me (on the same risk base)... so, you need about 10% profit per year !!!
And (a very important fact !!!) the service has to provide picks, where real money can be invested !!! ... surely so called 5-euro-bettors (no offence at all here !!!) are on the wrong place at payed services, so you need the right bookies - no BAW, no Interwetten etc etc !!! Even GB is difficult as they cut down your stakes to 10euro on kombis once you have really won some money :D
If a payed service, for exemple, charges 100 euro/month with a yield of 10%, then you have to stake 1000 euro to get the 100, for a decent profit of, lets say 5.000 euro, you have to stake 50.000 euro !!! .... at a yield of 10% !!! ... and at bookies, where you can stake 50.000 eur per month ... not easy at all !!! If the stake goes higher it gets even more difficult.
Bets on exotic games (... sometimes not really exotic :D ) are very difficult, too ... bets where only few bookies offer odds, as the clients will have to stake high (in euro not in units) and the odds will drop very fast !!! BTW a problem for all mailing lists or all who follow well known tipsters.... look what happens to odds once it is posted on BA and gets popular.... IMO a very serious problem for pay-sites !!! (..as the clients just simply cannot get the yield of the service and if they have to take odds 10% under the service their yield will be 0 !!!)
Early picks, good info, quality, good bookies....
IMO it is much more than just beeing a good tipster for selling picks .... you have to take care that your clients can make profit from your service !!! .... not easy at all !!!
ok, just my thoughts as I use this kind of service .....
And, perhaps for future discussions about this theme, do not compare payed-services with free betting sites, as there is too much difference between someone who has to take care of his clients money and betting sites, who can very easy achieve 15 to 20% more yield just by using high-odds-low-money bookies !!! .... if BAW really would take some serious money they would not exist anymore :D
This said, bets on polish 2 div or swed 3 div are really hard to follow.
Preview like 5 lines or even just 20??? What a crap! People who dont provide you more dont deserve any dime. When you know your sport by heart you should be able to analyze everything with passion and so on.
well said lakini. and long time no see :wink:
indeed if one was passionate about a certain sport(s), writing previews should never be a chore. back to the question of WHY would anyone pay for picks...well, i would say time constraint would be a major factor and the lack of knowledge of a certain sport. yes, i would subscribe to such a service based on this reason. Of course, then there is the thing about finding the right service and tipster to help you. That would take time, trust and quite a bit of patience :) 1 month is hardly fair...i myself would give the tipster service 3-6 months.
Preview like 5 lines or even just 20??? What a crap! People who dont provide you more dont deserve any dime.
I strongly disagree with you on this matter.
If a tipster know his work and he is making profit constantly then in my eyes that's worth more then any long preview (no matter what passion tipster puts into writing one).
Like most of us agree - time is something we have less every day.
Do you think a tipster that has his own service have time for long and pleasant previews ?
I'd rather he puts that extra time for nice preview into analysing a bet.
You're not buying an entartainment articles but picks to encrease your bankroll.
Also other thing we agree: we buy picks because we don't now much about certain sport and to have long previews about something we don't know a lot - it's pointless.
Bottom line: if tipster is showing a constant profit and gains my trust - then he could just send me picks (without any preview).
But that's just how I feel.
Preview like 5 lines or even just 20??? What a crap! People who dont provide you more dont deserve any dime.
I strongly disagree with you on this matter.
If a tipster know his work and he is making profit constantly then in my eyes that's worth more then any long preview (no matter what passion tipster puts into writing one).
Like most of us agree - time is something we have less every day.
Do you think a tipster that has his own service have time for long and pleasant previews ?
I'd rather he puts that extra time for nice preview into analysing a bet.
You're not buying an entartainment articles but picks to encrease your bankroll.
Also other thing we agree: we buy picks because we don't now much about certain sport and to have long previews about something we don't know a lot - it's pointless.
Bottom line: if tipster is showing a constant profit and gains my trust - then he could just send me picks (without any preview).
But that's just how I feel.
I agree with lexoganal
I have no time to write previews and noone in my mailinglist even has asked them. It's no use for long analyzes and previews if picks goes wrong, profit shows enough that tipster has knowledge about league(s) that he tipped.Oddlimits are enough (customer see is match valuable if he bet to someone other bookie that match).
But long previews are good for learning somethin new about leagues.
Make
I dont have any respect for people who dont write any previews. Sorry. And its not worth it and against my tipsterpride.
So we have a different opinion. You are a customer yourself, I am publisher, I want nice articles, nice writeups, good pictures AND good record. Everything else is not worth paying for. I know a lot of these fools who pretend to be good and just steal around their choices.
Don't have time for a writeup??? So how you dare selling you picks then? Do I read a newspaper just because of the headlines? Maybe some do, not me.
From my subscribers a lot are not interested in a preview - others read it word by word. In the end its their choice. But someone who runs the service has the duty to provide quality.
I certainly would want to have real previews if I'd ever pay for picks. I don't trust or give any respect to a tipster who don't have any analysis, and as Lakini said there are many out there who just steal other picks and sell them themselves.
I dont have any respect for people who dont write any previews. Sorry. And its not worth it and against my tipsterpride.
So we have a different opinion. You are a customer yourself, I am publisher, I want nice articles, nice writeups, good pictures AND good record. Everything else is not worth paying for. I know a lot of these fools who pretend to be good and just steal around their choices.
Don't have time for a writeup??? So how you dare selling you picks then? Do I read a newspaper just because of the headlines? Maybe some do, not me.
From my subscribers a lot are not interested in a preview - others read it word by word. In the end its their choice. But someone who runs the service has the duty to provide quality.
I'm not customer and my service is free. If my service would be paid I dare sell my picks so long when they would be profitable (I have opinion my free tips, if they are not profitable I quit).
But it's true that it's nice if there is nice articles and so on in your service.
You compared previews to newspaper's headlines maybe it's true but I have never heard that somebody use service just because previews, good picks are main purpose for me if I would use some service.
Someone can steal picks even he write previews too or is it impossible?It's own art to steal right (winning) picks. :wink:
I think a lot depends on how much money you're betting with payed service picks.
If you're little bettor that bets 10 euro per bet then most of them are very picky and wants everything for free (or most they would pay is 5 euro per month).
And for that money they get what they paid for - nice previews but very little profit and no money back if pay service don't make a profit.
On the other site are bettors that are betting 500 $ minimum and are more then happy to pay 300 $ or more monthly fee to pay service that is monitored and offer a money back if they don't make profit in one month.
Since pay service is monitored they now their pick record and trust that service more and know that for the money they are paying - they are getting not only great picks but also a custumer support.
And with that kind of a successful pay service - bettor's 1st priority isn't nice and long previews but fact that they will earn a minimum 1000 $ after the month is finished.
And for that kind of a pay service I would pay 200 euro per month.
That's what I'm trying to say from 1st post in this thread.
All I care about is how much money will I earn by betting on pay service picks.
litmanen88
13-06-05, 20:15
Hi,
As you seem to know exactly what you want and know what you are talking about maybe you can help me.
Please have a look at my site www.litmanenbet.com and see how I can improve. I have been a very profitable tipster and decided to make my own mailing list.
But I did not want to charge for this. So instead I made the condition to sign up you had to join my sponsor (I receive a bounty amount or each sign-up - not percentages of losses - as I expect my tips to win so would make very little from this).
Anyway check it out and say I what you think I should add/remove/edit.
Thanks for your help.
I would like to reiterate the fact that I have made solid profits from January until April when the list was halted for a month (end of season is not worth betting with the change of psychology).
I am now opening a new summer list from June until august. My service is free as it is paid by bookies.
I agree with Lakini that previews are important. It is like an argument - I am persuading punters to bet what I think.
However, if someone is constantly making profit then from time to time it is acceptable to leave previews.
Anyway can you advise me how to attract more interest. I have made solid profits with detailed previews for many months. I just want people to give me a try as there is no harm in that and if you look at my stats II feel deserve it.
Cheers.
IMO we should pay only when the picks are right, that way both parties would be happy.
When a tipster makes the wrong pick we won't have to pay anything, but if a tipster makes the right pick than do we pay. You win your bet, and the tipster gets his fee :wink:
IMO we should pay only when the picks are right, that way both parties would be happy.
When a tipster makes the wrong pick we won't have to pay anything, but if a tipster makes the right pick than do we pay. You win your bet, and the tipster gets his fee :wink:
I wouldnt mind to do it that way, but you cannot expect the people who run a website or a list to run after the people, send them reminders, mails and all that. Because, first of all, everyone has his own stats. Sometimes you simply miss one winning pick for example. I could say to user X: Hey we made you a plus of 10.000E now give us some Dolares - he could say: Nah, I was two days away, one day your picks came too late cause my internet wasnt working and the other day odds changed so much and I made -1000 in the end and you dont get anything.
I have joint some paid picks website where you pay first in order to recieve some picks from some tipster, so its like creating an account with then, they only charge you then when the pick is correct.
For example i pay $500 for 5 picks ($100@1), if one pick is correct then a got like 4 picks left, if there wrong than i still got 5 picks.
Anyway we pay upfront for there services.
... perhaps I get something wrong, but from what I read here again and again itīs about "money back in case you lose" and I really donīt understand it.
I would agree with "one losing month means next month for free" as it would be good for both sides. Provider shows good will, client gets some feeling about getting something for free.
But, to be honest, I have never seen a business man who told me I get my money back if I invest in his ideas and his idea fails, or a broker who told me he gives me my money back if the advised shares do not make profit (would be funny if I asked my bank for something like this :D )
IMO (.. and as I said in my first post in this topic) we have to regard payed-services as a real business (... itīs much more than just buying tips) and so the provider has to give more than just tips as I want to know where my money goes. And the provider himself needs the written previews to have an argument in case of a potential loss !!!
After all the payed-service (IMO it has to be a service and not just a "tips-provider") has to show that he is aware of the case that people risk (a lot) of money on his advice !!!
I can remember (not long ago) somebody saying: just pay-follow-win... easy like this !!! ... well, itīs proven now that it is not easy like this !!!
I would prefer a payment-system with the fee rising with the profit .... if you can make 15+% yield than itīs easy to pay an additional fee at the end of the month... a simple bonus-system... if the provider has steady rising profit (...a progressive staking plan) the profit will rise, the payment will rise, everybody is happy :D :D :D
Also I would like quality, not quantity .... donīt get me wrong, what I want to say is, a payed-service that deals with a limited number of clients is far more easy to handle than a "many-people-low-cost" one.
A live-chat service (as kind of personel relation service) could be usefull... business-hours added as nobody gets a 24-hour-service :D
again and again I will keep saying: never compare a payed-service to a free tips-site as it is quite a different thing IMO.
... hope I not get boring :oops:
please,how to find any net sites for paying tips... example?..Thanks
http://forum.bettingadvice.com/viewforum.php?f=18&sid=0613d1fe8a7419e9937a50ea24bc6248
I mean there's no point in paying for picks from a pay service if you don't bet at least 100 $ or euro.
I'll speculate here but I think that a border when a bettor is willing to pay for picks is - when a bettor bets at least 500 $ on each single bet and know that pay service will at least double this money at the end of the month (so at least 1000 $ profit).
If we look from this perspective then this kind of bettor would pay 100-200 $ per month for picks from pay service.
I myself was betting 100 euro in 2004/05 NBA season and will probably start betting 200 euro or more in next NBA season since my systems are hitting around 61-72%.
And how much do you normaly bet on your NBA bets ?
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