View Full Version : Dutch Guys
Living in Holland now I notice some UK Books, Will Hill, Bet365, Ladbrokes, you cannot bet on football due to the Toto Monopoly.
Do you know which UK books allow football betting besides Betfair, ie Victor Chandler, Stan James, Blue Square etc......?
Ik zou het echt op prijs stellen als een van jullie kan verder informeren :D
Kan ook via private message 8)
thanks
Im interested in this topic as well. I have seen a sticky thread concerning betting from Holland somewhere on this forum, but I cant find it now.... :(
VinnieJones
23-01-05, 23:59
why do you want United Kingdom bookies?? I'm from Holland and i use Unibet..(from scandinavia,
It's not the best bookie..(sometimes limited bets on some leagues like holland,turkey = only 1x2 )
Or else you can try paddypower :)
I use Unibet, Nordicbet and Centrebet mainly, as most bookies (esp. German and UK) still refuse anyone from Holland.
Im interested in this topic as well. I have seen a sticky thread concerning betting from Holland somewhere on this forum, but I cant find it now.... :(Yes, there was a topic about the ongoing court actions from betfair vs the dutch law, who want to make their betting exchange legal for Dutch customers, which is not at the moment.. (I couldn't find the topic lately) As I'm living in The Netherlands it's still possible to register at betfair, but they don't offer bets on Dutch football due to the law affair. I heard from other Dutch punters betfair is now going to a European Court to contest the Dutch local bookie monopoly. It's a strange situation which makes you feel like living in old Russia or North Korea...
Bookies already mentioned in this topic can be used by Dutch betters, and also betandwin.de allows Dutch customers to register. It's time for the European law makers to set things straigt.. and allow us to bet everywhere we want!
thanks for the replies guys. is it possible to use gamebookers from holland?
I have been told Ladbrokes is currently challenging the Dutch Government's Monopoly rules in EU Courts as it is basically illegal what they do. Assuming Ladbroke's win, which is likely, there will be no resticrictions on placing bets from within Holland. However it is unclear when this will happen.
Bookies already mentioned in this topic can be used by Dutch betters, and also betandwin.de allows Dutch customers to register.
Funny, by registering
Betandwin.de says: "Ich bestätige außerdem kein US-Einwohner zu sein."
Betandwin.com says: "I hereby also confirm that I am neither a resident of the USA nor Netherlands."
On the international site we can't register, at the German we can :lol:
Opgezwollenlever
24-01-05, 13:24
My Bookie's are
Bet24, Centrebet and Mrbookmaker.
It's indeed hard to bet if you are an Dutchy :evil:
Bookies already mentioned in this topic can be used by Dutch betters, and also betandwin.de allows Dutch customers to register.
Funny, by registering
Betandwin.de says: "Ich bestätige außerdem kein US-Einwohner zu sein."
Betandwin.com says: "I hereby also confirm that I am neither a resident of the USA nor Netherlands."
On the international site we can't register, at the German we can :lol:
Ah, that's funny, didn't know that. Probably they (or the Lotto) haven't noticed it also, so I don't hope they'll read this.
And well, the Lotto is really annoying, it's ridiculous to have a monopoly for gambling (I could only imagine that for China or so...), and they defend their actions with "betfair is dangerous" and this kind of nonsense. I hope Ladbrokes will win their case, but as Dutch government seems quite powerful (recent cases were almost all rejected) I'm not very confident yet.....
Luckily some bookies are still open for Dutch people and didn't listen to the Lotto, but Ladbrokes should really win a case soon or I fear some more will close their doors for Dutch people.
do you have any links to first-hand info about those cases???
http://www.nautadutilh.be/content/publications_detail.asp?item=%7B0C4CDC45-69EF-4DF8-998D-ED00FBA69B38%7D
here is some info.
I mailed betandwin, via .com site and got the following response :
Thank you for your email.
At present the Netherlands based monopoly De Lotto is undertaking actions against a Great Britain based sports betting provider. The monopoly's case, in context with an interim revision on national level, was affirmed in both the court of first instance and the court of appeal. As the respondent company believes that the judgement is not in accordance with the community law principals of the EU, it now appears the case must be subject to all instances, whereby the last instance at national court level is obligated to submit the case to the European Court of Justice in Luxembourg if the case does fall under community law.
In relation to this instance BAW International has decided that, as regards to competition law, to temporarily exclude customers from the Netherlands in taking part in their sports betting and lottery products and therefore closed your betandwin account.
Please do not hesitate to contact us if you have any further queries.
Best regards,
Your support team at betandwin
Having called them it seems betandwin.de is actually a different company to betandwin.com. So maybe betandwin.de can be used to bet from Holland.
Gerard Lopez
26-01-05, 11:18
Please don't be so stupid to name bookies here where we can still bet. It will only make things easier for the lotto :(
datapunter
07-02-05, 15:42
There are actually 2 subjects going on.
One is an on-going action by Betfair and others to obtain a Dutch license. As far as i know end of last year the Dutch goverment issued a new 5-year license exclusively to The Lotto. This exclusivity is being contested by Betfair amongs others. Afraid i have no further details on this at this moment.
The 2nd subject is the legal action between Ladbrokes and The Lotto, which sort of serves as an example case. Last verdict was june 2nd and said that at the moment the Dutch law is insufficiently restrictive to justify not allowing bookmakers to offer their services on the internet.
This means it is NOT illegal for bookmakers to offer their services !
Nevertheless most bookmakers refuse Dutch people as a matter of precaution, based on the original verdict in 2003. Thats the official reply i got from about 4. The market is simply too small for most to actually make an effort and get informed in detail.
This is however an intermediate verdict and parties where invited to produce further information, specifically about the policies from the goverment. Originally there would have been a continuation in September 2004. I called the courthouse in Arnhem and was told this case continuous the 16th of Februari 2005. Not sure if there will be a verdict or another continuation, i understood both are possible.
To be continued...
I appreciate the clear answer Datapunter.
Let's hope for a positive, clear verdict on Feb 16th.
However my short experience of life in Holland makes me fear the worst. Bureaucracy & Ambtenaren seem to rule the roost :roll:
If nothing doing I will have to look into a foreign cc, and possibilities of IP masking software/ proxy stuff. No idea what is possible and necessary, but got to be a way around it. If it comes to it, any suggestions will be welcome.
Next episode in this "communist-like" case:
In Dutch:
Donner gaat illegale goksites aanpakken (10/02/05 13:52h)
DEN HAAG - Minister Donner van Justitie gaat in de toekomst illegale goksites strenger aanpakken. Het afgelopen jaar is er gewerkt aan een strategie om dit soort kansspelen op de digitale snelweg te bestrijden. Donner schrijft dit in de derde voortgangsrapportage Kansspelen, die donderdag aan de Tweede Kamer is gestuurd. Het Korps landelijke politiediensten (KLPD) heeft het strijdplan ontwikkeld. Een van de punten is om het spelen van dit soort kansspelen door voorlichting te ontmoedigen. Daarnaast moeten er instrumenten en middelen komen om illegaal aanbod en aanbieders van kansspelen op internet op te sporen en te vervolgen.
Hoewel het in Nederland verboden is om gokspelletjes via internet en de mobiele telefoon aan te bieden, mag deze vorm van kansspelen zich hier verheugen op een stijgende populariteit. Dit bleek in december uit een onderzoek in opdracht van het college van toezicht op de kansspelen. Het college beklaagde zich toen over de traagheid waarmee Donner met dit probleem omgaat en dat er in de tussentijd niet wordt opgetreden. ,,Wij hebben het probleem met zekere regelmaat bij de minister van Justitie aangekaart'', benadrukte plaatsvervangend secretaris P. Geertsen. ,,Het speelt al jaren.''
Van de internetgebruikers waagde vorig jaar 5,3 procent wel eens een gokje op de digitale snelweg, tegen 3,4 procent in 2003. Het bedrag dat de Nederlandse internetters via illegale kansspelen spenderen is verdrievoudigd van 50 miljoen naar 144 miljoen euro. Daarnaast gaat er in Nederland ongeveer 36 miljoen euro op aan gokspelletjes via SMS en (mobiele) telefoon. Afgelopen zomer liet Donner weten dat hij een proef begint om legaal kansspel via internet mogelijk te maken. Waarschijnlijk krijgt Holland Casino hiervoor een tijdelijke vergunning. Op basis van de bevindingen van de proef wordt besloten over het al dan niet structureel toestaan van kansspelen op internet.
Volgens de bewindsman is het aantal illegale casino's de afgelopen jaren sterk afgenomen van ruim vijftig tot minder dan vijf nu. Dit is gebeurd door gezamenlijk optreden van de Belastingdienst, de politie, Openbaar Ministerie en het ministerie van Justitie, stelt Donner.
--
Short translation: the Dutch government announces more strict rules on internet gambling and will try to find a way to ban Dutch customers from foreign (in the article noted as: illegal) online casino's/bookies.
Ridicolous, ignoring EU legislation and going its own way... typical CDA (Christian Democratic Party) stance.
They know whats best...bah.
Scandinavian way of handling with an addictive matter by increasing prices and reducing suppliers to state-supported/owned firm. I believe Scandinavian countries have done anything but reduce the alcohol problem, but at least they are adjusting slightly to EU demands of free transfer of goods. Holland decides to go back in time.. great, just great 50percent win margins, cant wait to bet on AH odds of 1.5 :(
Gerard Lopez
18-02-05, 14:04
Today the court spoke out: Ladbrokes lost :( :( :( :(
DEN HAAG - Het Britse gokbedrijf Ladbrokes mag geen kansspelen aanbieden in Nederland. Dat blijkt uit een arrest dat de Hoge Raad vrijdag heeft gewezen. De raad bevestigde een eerdere uitspraak van het gerechtshof in Arnhem, dat Ladbrokes anderhalf jaar geleden verbood om Nederlanders via zijn site te laten gokken.
De Britten stapten naar de Hoge Raad omdat zij het oneens waren met de wijze waarop de Wet op de kansspelen wordt uitgelegd. Door die bezwaren heeft de raad een streep gehaald.
Om in Nederland kansspelen aan te bieden, hebben bedrijven een vergunning nodig. Ladbrokes beschikt niet over zo'n vergunning. Het arrest is het voorlopige sluitstuk van een juridische twist tussen De Lotto en Ladbrokes. De Lotto daagde het Britse bedrijf eind 2002 voor de rechter, omdat het illegaal weddenschappen op sport aanbood via zijn website.
I already expected this outcome, but it's very sad and rediculous. Last verdict (June 2003) said that the Dutch state doesn't do enough to gambling addictness. Now the minister of justice just SAID he is going to be more strict and that is enough??? :?:
I would say let's see how he does first, and not believe WORDS ONLY!!! :?
****!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :cry: :cry: :cry:
19-02-2005 Ladbrokes must stop taking bets from Dutch citizens
The Dutch Supreme Court confirmed a ruling that no gambling provider may offer services to Dutch residents without a Dutch license.
The Supreme Court found that the Netherlands’ restrictive gambling policies are in conformity with European law, rejecting Ladbrokes' plea that the gambling monopoly enjoyed by De Lotto in the Netherlands violates the free movement of services throughout Europe.
The UK bookmaker has been ordered to implement geolocation systems and other measures to insure that its website cannot be accessed by Dutch residents.
I know there are other cases open and to be discussed and ruled, but it seems hard...very hard...
expekt has stopped taking bets from Dutch customers :cry:
I got a message stating that they disagree with the decission from the Dutch court and will not sit back and do nothing.
This is ridiculous ..................
soccerpimp
06-03-06, 23:22
i saw this message on their site too... but now it's gone back to the general messages about the upgrade. Let's hope they change their mind...
lots of news sites reporting that teh end of this could be near ;
http://www.nu.nl/news/695294/50/%27Nederland_moet_goksites_toestaan%27.html
http://www.elsevier.nl/nieuws/nederland/nieuwsbericht.asp?artnr=91034&rss=true
(both in dutch)
Superstar Leo
21-04-06, 17:10
Just heard some bad news on Radio 1 news, De Lotto has won some sort of hogerberoep (dont know the english word) today. I am looking for some articles about it on google but nothing founf yet.
Absolutelly ridicilous a country so liberal where i can use drugs, go to hookers, take an abortion, do euthanasie in some cases, get married as gay/lesbian etc etc but i cant ****ing make a bet with my own money on the internet.
I still think it's against European rules. It's a new, delicate and complicated problem between Dutch and European rules. If the bookies don't give up, I don't see Dutch govenrment winning this case soon and I don't believe Dutch people will have problems using bigger bookies during next years. Maybe small bookies will now sooner reject Dutch people, but I don't think there will be changes right away..
eurobasketas
24-04-06, 02:56
holland :lol: :lol:
vBulletin® v3.8.4, Copyright ©2000-2013, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
0